tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post5717805425098621821..comments2024-03-26T07:57:53.601+00:00Comments on Miranda Threlfall-Holmes: Pick Your Own BishopMirandahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09436701820363040984noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-78752279781957091882012-07-05T14:07:37.821+01:002012-07-05T14:07:37.821+01:00My concern is that this amendment is so loosely ph...My concern is that this amendment is so loosely phrased that it is wide open to abuse in the future. Anyone who believes otherwise is either being disingenuous or naive. And yes, the whole of the problem comes down to the Act of Synod and that we still appear to be in a period of Reception and still ordaining priests who will not accept women's ordination. If that legislation had never been passed we would not be stuck with the dreadful mess that we have now. However you like to see it, there is a two tier system of bishops and priests, those who are seen as clean and can minister to anyone and those who are tainted by their association with the ministry of women priests. I find the whole situation deeply hurtful and insulting - yet the voices of those who fear 'taint' is deemed more valuable than mine and the many women priests in our Church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-49043304621839692072012-05-30T10:44:08.153+01:002012-05-30T10:44:08.153+01:00Or (B), the entire concept of bishops - male or fe...Or (B), the entire concept of bishops - male or female - is an irrelevant anachronism.David Watershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01744348689409622220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-10370841104206656882012-05-28T09:59:51.614+01:002012-05-28T09:59:51.614+01:00No, I don't think the first point you make is ...No, I don't think the first point you make is strange! If people dont believe a woman is a bishop, I can understand why they'd want a male bishop. I can even understand why they'd want a male bishop with the right pedigree, ordained by a male bishop, consecrated by a male bishop. But I think a line is crossed when you say that they need a bishop who doesn't ordain women, and who doesn't believe that women can be ordained. That is picking and choosing a bishop who agrees with you, not being provided with a bishop you think is a bishop.Mirandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09436701820363040984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-80691445862287054592012-05-27T05:50:00.043+01:002012-05-27T05:50:00.043+01:00This is the inevitable fallout of the well-intenti...This is the inevitable fallout of the well-intentioned mistake known as "flying bishops." England has written a new heresy (now working its way through the schismatical tendencies of the American far right) that every individual Christian is entitled to have a bihop who agrees with them about whatever issue happens to be their personal obsession.Malcolm+https://www.blogger.com/profile/08469936715413110334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-74443276743942543332012-05-26T08:30:21.129+01:002012-05-26T08:30:21.129+01:00Even before he has been enthroned - people are how...Even before he has been enthroned - people are howling at the next Bishop of Chichester to ensure that the next bishop of Lewes to replace Wallace Benn (pbuh) ordains women. The sage Lord Habgood once suggested that every deanery include at least one traditionalist parish - similarly should not every diocese include one bishop who does and one who does not ordain women? On another issue this system of diversity seems to be working well in the diocese of Salisbury where the diocesan is in favour of "Gay marriage" and a suffragan is firmly against but the two bishops concerned (Salisbury & Sherborne) seem to rub along quite nicely together. There would, of course, be a problem where dioceses such as Portsmouth only have one bishop but the system of continuing PEVs could solve that little local difficulty. Thus our fragile unity which threatens to be shattered forever if the legislation is passed in July could be maintained and we can all episcopally "Pick and Mix" to our hearts content.Father Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04902961006821419938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-1072342578474976502012-05-26T08:19:10.219+01:002012-05-26T08:19:10.219+01:00Further on the Act of Synod, the Act allowed that ...Further on the Act of Synod, the Act allowed that the Archbishop of Canterbury could, acting on his own authority, either personally or through a commissary, ordain, license and institute clergy in the diocese of an existing bishop, not as his delegate but simply provided he did not object (in other words the existing bishop retained his full authority). This is more than explicitly envisaged by the current legislation, but was accepted by the Church of England then and since.<br /><br />The circumstances in which he was to do this were where a bishop would not ordain women himself, but would not seek to prevent women being ordained in his diocese. (Section 11 of the Act -- the Archbishop or commissary would, of course, be in favour of women's ordination and would therefore have been 'picked' on that basis.<br /><br />The principle to which you object has, therefore, I think, been in place for a long time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-70392058677902517052012-05-25T17:58:30.746+01:002012-05-25T17:58:30.746+01:00"What the amendment actually says is that any..."What the amendment actually says is that any theological conviction about women will be supported, with priests and bishops ordained specially for it. It seems clear that the point of this is to ensure that parishes that want a man who has never ordained a woman or (in some circles) had anything to do with ordained women, get what they want."<br /><br />The amendment does not say that at all<br /><br />“5 (1) The House of Bishops shall draw up, and promulgate, guidance in a Code of Practice as to... (c) the selection of male bishops or male priests the exercise of ministry by whom is consistent with the theological convictions as to the consecration or ordination of women on grounds of which parochial church councils have issued Letters of Request under section 3".<br /><br />The House of Bishops must produce guidance on the point. There is no suggestion nor requirement that such guidance will affirm the principle set out in 5(1)(c).TommiAquinashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10595735200198764348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-32021306705644059082012-05-25T12:26:53.861+01:002012-05-25T12:26:53.861+01:00Amanda, do you not think it a tad strange that le...Amanda, do you not think it a tad strange that legislation designed to make 'provision' for those who cannot accept women bishops was so worded that bishops and clergy who supported women’s ordination could have been appointed to minister in parishes which didn’t?<br /><br />Secondly, calling this a 'pick your own bishop' arrangement is just hyperbole.<br /><br />Thirdly, the Provinical Episcopal Visitor scheme was only one of several options available under the Act of Synod. People seem to have forgotten that a local or a regional scheme was the preferred method, using existing bishops in dioceses. The PEV scheme was only a back-up, but came into prominence as the first two options were first largely ignored and then rendered impossible by the lack of suitable bishops being consecrated.<br /><br />To be honest, this all looks a bit over-blown.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03590979027426082714noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-71396608307048396632012-05-25T11:18:53.187+01:002012-05-25T11:18:53.187+01:00The "on grounds of theological conviction&quo...The "on grounds of theological conviction" phrase references what is already in the Measure at Clause 3 (1). Interestingly, the phrase was inserted there during the Revision Committee precisely to prevent parishes passing a resolution for a letter of request on grounds other than their convictions that women should not be priests. It was part of the series of amendments which was drafted by the Archdeacon of Lewisham and Greenwich. So you're arguing about something which was already in the Measure that WATCH and others urged us to pass. The House of Bishops amendment seeks to elucidate what might be required by a parish who submitted such a letter of request.Pete Broadbenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17789854756337522930noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-15462340464902062402012-05-25T10:48:50.365+01:002012-05-25T10:48:50.365+01:00Quite - it is horrific that women are being treate...Quite - it is horrific that women are being treated in this way by the Church and completely unacceptable that discrimination of this depth be allowed to be enshrined in law. It needs all the strong women and men in the church and indeed society as a whole to work against this discrimination.<br />Well done Miranda for putting your strong, coherent voice to this worthy cause.verytittyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00140212047481012918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5557921162362661008.post-43979744967842748362012-05-25T10:37:05.623+01:002012-05-25T10:37:05.623+01:00Simply, elegantly, profoundly said Miranda. Thank ...Simply, elegantly, profoundly said Miranda. Thank you.LindsaySouthernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10755490167323294947noreply@blogger.com